This is a tiny part of a much larger discussion in which many Christians are engaged relating to how to view the issue of war from a Biblical standpoint.
The Bible presents war as a disciplining action reflecting the judgment of God. When people obeyed God and lived by his principles, they were rewarded with peace. When war was waged, as a dire necessity, against corrupt states, God's faithful people suffered few losses. Repeatedly we see instances where God's people, even though terribly outnumbered, could successfully rout many.
How does war in the Bible square with the sixth commandment, "Thou shalt not kill?" John Calvin pointed out that followers of God's law should not be part of unjustly doing violence to others. By this standard, hundreds of political and economic wars and badly labeled "revolutions" in our world's recent history are wars that Godly people should oppose. Unjust violence can be terrorism under the guise of liberation.
On the other hand, is it ever right to kill? It seems that according to the Bible defensive war (and capital punishment) are legitimate because they react to the unjust deeds of criminal terror, whether that terrorism is conducted against individuals or a nation.
God's loving people have a passion for preventing violence. We who would not ourselves "harm a fly" cannot stand aside watching when a neighbor is being savagely beaten by criminals who have no respect for human dignity or God's rule of peace. We are committed to peace and serving the Prince of Peace.
Two examples of Bible teaching on war stand in juxtaposition to each other which suggests the need for a balanced approach to understanding the Biblical perspective:
1. Psalm 68:30 "Rebuke the company of spearmen....Scatter the people who delight in war."
2. Proverbs 24:6 "For by wise counsel you shall make war...."
I'm interested in hearing what you think about the Bible's teaching on war. Our nation's participation in war is one of the most important themes in this year's election. Let's help to sharpen one another on the Biblical standpoint of war.
In peace,
Duff Gorle
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“Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP -- the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company -- along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq's Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq's largest fields, according to ministry officials, oil company officials and an American diplomat.
The deals, expected to be announced on June 30, will lay the foundation for the first commercial work for the major companies in Iraq since the American invasion, and open a new and potentially lucrative country for their operations.”
Preacher how do you stand up there and peach Sunday after Sunday knowing that the people you are preaching to are sending their precious sons and daughters off to fight in these wars for profits. Our being in Iraq has nothing to do with a war on terror but corporate profits. The evangels with their misguided nationalism and patriotism are being used as a mercenary army to steal Iraqis resources i.e. oil.
I would make a lousy preacher giving a passionate sermon on how my people in my church are sending their sons and daughters off to a war for profits. I would beg them please please don’t allow your sons and daughters to be killed or maimed for life for oil. Ask yourself what would Jesus’ sermon be like about the war in Iraq? This war based on lies and deception and not faulty intelligence gathering.
You and I both know Jesus would not hold back in spite of the consequences. I am not suggesting you give such a sermon, to dangerous but I often ask what would Jesus do.
Jesus paid a heavy price for telling the truth as he would today. My belief is his very followers would eliminate him as the religious did in his day. Again just getting it off my chest on your blog as I saw a journalist on TV last night that has been in Iraq for 5 years and what she said brings tears to my eyes and that we are hearing very little about the atrocities committed by our soldiers in Iraq as we did in nam.
What we are doing to our soldiers and the Iraqis for wealth generation is a sin in the highest order. I feel so judgmental making these statements but my experience with the Vietnam War taught me the horrors of these wars for corporate profits.
While bush jr dances on the white house steps and preachers turn a deaf ear men women and children are dying and being disfigured for life. For what! Profits.
Ralph Waldo Emerson:
When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart
1. Psalm 68:30 "Rebuke the company of spearmen....Scatter the people who delight in war."
2. Proverbs 24:6 "For by wise counsel you shall make war...."
Psalms: Who delights in war more than we Americans? We never saw a war we did not want to participate in after World War II. Read what ike stated about our industrial military complex when he left office in 1961. Who really delights in war? Mc Cain wants to bomb bomb Iran and he is getting a 40% approval rating.
Now proverbs: what wise counsel after 9/11. It was a set up job to take over Iraqi oil fields and 9/11 gave them the excuse to do it. The American people were conned by their leaders for war for oil. They were duped and they cannot blame their leaders as we all support an industrial military complex like the world has ever known.
When bush jr visited mesa az recently he visited a small plant to show how some Americans make money in these economic times. Well that plant makes military equipment. Not one major network picked that up. We not only have corp fascism but media fascism also.
Don’t post this as I am just blowing off steam and I don’t want you to get in trouble with your elders and guarantee you they (80%) support bush jr on this war. As I hear religious folk say all the time “better to kill them over there than over here.” Well we have 1.1 billion of them to kill. Heard the same thing about Vietnam.
Lost relatives in that war and the mother of my cousin never got over her grief. Never. Went to her grave in grief of the loss of her son. I believe he was there to greet her when she crossed over. Most churches even pray for our soldiers but wonder how many pray for the Iraqis that are dying in that illegal war for corp profits.
Joel Osteen never gives sermons on the war just positive thinking he does not want to upset half of his congregation. I.e. half of his money givers. Do you think Jesus would hold back? Not a chance. As I have stated before follower of Jesus yes but Christian religion as we know it in America not a chance.
Nationalism and patriotism can overwhelm the teachings of Jesus. Any preacher that gives a sermon on that statement will be looking for a new job soon after that sermon. God I hope I don’t get you into trouble you and your lovely wife look like nice people. Just chalk me up as ministry in action. Hope so.
Here is the interesting part if Jesus came back today and gave the same sermons to capitalist America to the Christians that purport to be his followers he would be ran out of town and maybe even eliminated.
Just imagine what Jesus sermon would be like after 9/11 even I wanted revenge to my personal disappointment. In Afghanistan not Iraq. Iraq was about oil. Please note oil companies are now signing no bid contracts for oil in Iraq. No bid contracts are stealing in the highest order.
You realize I say these things not because I hate my country but because of my love for this country and the potential it had after World War II. To our shame we Americans are causing suffering all over this world with our greed and need for super power status.
And the Americans that show the most support for this illegal war. Of all people the religious evangels. Go figure purported followers of Jesus supporting an illegal war for oil. Jesus I think most Americans missed your point.
If we were wining this war and getting their oil on the cheap not a peep out of most Americans it is the cost and losing part that bothers most Americans. Make no mistake we will lose this war like we did in Vietnam.
“On the other hand, is it ever right to kill? It seems that according to the Bible defensive war (and capital punishment) are legitimate because they react to the unjust deeds of criminal terror, whether that terrorism is conducted against individuals or a nation.”
Like most evangels you have completely missed the point. Iraq nor Vietnam did not conduct terrorism against the United States. We killed over one million Vietnamese due to the induced fear from our government and our wars for profits corporations. There was not one Iraqi in those planes on 9/11. The terrorism being conducted against Iraq is from we Americans.
Many of those people over in Iraq are fighting a legitimate defensive battle against an occupier. I.e. the United States of America now signing no bid contracts with the Iraqi puppet government that we keep in the green zone because if we let them out their own people would kill them.
Now we have troops inside Iran doing secret ops work and when some of those troops are killed by Iran we will use that as an excuse like we did in Vietnam to go to war with Iran. Ike warned us what would happen after he left office in 1961 if we did not resort back to a smaller industrial military complex. Well it is happening now.
Not unless evangels have their heads stuck in the sand or they just want to kill Muslims prevents them from seeing that we are the terrorists in this Iraq war. Now will we win? No like Vietnam they will wear us down in blood and treasure and we will leave but not before tons of money is made by the industrial military complex and Wall Street.
Now my mind cannot comprehend how people can sit there on Sunday mornings and listen to the message that Jesus gave the world about love and peace and compassion and turn the other check and give unto Rome what it Rome’s and still support this war with Iraq. I ask myself over and over again is it nationalism or patriotism or self-righteousness or do they just hate Muslims?
How can anyone claim to be a follower of Jesus and support this war based on lies and deception from their government? What we sow we reap and I know this great country will be brought to its knees with this war. The Iraqis will not rest until they throw us out of their country. They hate us and will do whatever it takes to kick us out of their country.
I know in my heart that I fail to trust the words of Jesus when he stated what we sow we reap and Americans will learn but oh the suffering we have brought on to the world with our greed for oil and our desire to be a superpower. I.e. bully.
Please take my words with a grain of salt; my words only reveal my own frustration of not trusting the words of Jesus. If Jesus gave the same sermon that he gave on the mount after 9/11 he would be heckled and thrown out of town or worst.
Peace be with you and bless you and your family. As I look at religion in America and how the religious continue to support this war in large numbers I cannot and will not become part of such a family.
Am I the only one that responds to your blog? What is up with that? Lucky you right.
“Unjust violence can be terrorism under the guise of liberation.”
My apologies I now see you do see things about this war that I failed to recognize about you. Take what I say with a grain of salt I just see men women and children being harmed in Iraq and it causes my consciousness to scream out how can we Americans be so blind and so callous.
Joel Osteen will not give a sermon on this Iraq war. Hey that takes courage. I suspect I would be one lousy minister with a very small following just me and one homeless guy that came in to have a seat and probably then fall asleep.
our soldiers were sent over to fight a war. it may have been to fight for oil and profit...
...but what about fighting to help free the oppressed people? the people of iraq are being oppressed by their lack of a stable government. their country supplies us with oil, true. but who controls the oil? osama and his band of merry men. as long as his men have control, the people will not be able to overcome.
we are over there to support them and teach them and help them overcome their oppression. we're bringing back life to the iraqi people. we're giving them hope that one day they can live without fear.
i believe in helping those in need. God instructed us to care for those who are less fortunate than us.
but this is just my opinion...as is yours above. :) God bless.
raw rock kills:
interesting name.
we are there to free the iraqis?
what planet do you live on?
we went there to find wmd's and when none were found we changed the reason we were there. Almost weekly.
We have destroyed a country and its system. Two million have moved out of the country usually the best educated.
If they did not have the third largest oil reserve in the world we would not be there.
American self-righteousness is amazing.
We went to Vietnam to save the people from communism and killed one million Vietnamese doing just that. Kind of.
These are puppet governments we have set up in Iraq.
Put these government puppets out of the green zone and their own people would kill them.
American oil companies just signed no bid contracts with these puppet governments.
It is a war for profits that Ike warned us about as the Vietnam War was.
Imperialism at its best or worst depending on your point of view.
Google “winter soldiers” and see how well we are treating the Iraqis. You are being spoon fed by a corrupt media in America.
Only in America do citizens argue if the surge is working with an illegal war. Why do Americans think they have a right to invade third world countries? This invasion and occupation was and is based on lies and deception.
And my point all along has been most evangels support such wars for profits that I believe goes against everything Jesus taught.
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